An Interview with ‘The Descent’ director Neil Marshall on ‘Duchess’

You can watch the entire Zoom interview via the embedded video below, or read the edited transcript further down…

ALEXANDER BOUCHER: Your new film, Duchess, is the first time you’ve made a crime thriller, so what drew you to the genre after years of horror and sci-fi?

NEIL MARSHALL: Generally, I’m a complete cinephile. I love all movies, all genre movies in particular, so I’ve managed to jump around, doing all kinds of things with it, between film and television. I’ve covered a lot of ground, from sci-fi, fantasy, I’ve done Westerns, time-travel… I’ve done all sorts of stuff, and I’ve always loved the gangster and crime thriller genre as well.

It never occurred to me when I was making it, but this is the first film I’ve done that’s sort of set in the real world. It doesn’t have any fantasy elements, beyond the gangster stuff. It appealed to me. When Charlotte [Kirk, co-writer and lead actress] and I first came up with the story back in 2018, we were eating sushi and talking about gangster movies, and the idea for a sort of female Scarface was knocked around. It kind of grew from there and evolved into something very different. But trying to combine elements of all different gangster movies that we love, and the styles that I love. I love ’70s cinema, so I kind of leant in to that very heavily with this, in terms of the style, the music specifically, and the use of captions and titles. Even the font. So that was a big inspiration.

ALEXANDER: Are there any filmmakers or films in particular that you looked to for reference?

NEIL: [everything from…] The Italian Job, to Goodfellas and Snatch, and a bit of Tarantino of course. So little bits of all sorts in there.

ALEXANDER: Throughout your films you’ve had a lot of female protagonists at the forefront. Is that something that happens organically?

NEIL: It came about with The Descent almost as a response to Dog Soldiers, and a lack of there being any kind of horror films at the time, and not many since, that have an all-female cast. It’s still quite rare. And so that kind of led to one thing, and then when I did Doomsday I really fancied having a strong female protagonist in that, then flipped it for Centurion and had a really strong female antagonist in that one. And then of course once Charlotte and I teamed up on projects we were generating projects with her in mind for the lead, so it naturally formed that way. I’ve kind of got a bit of a reputation for doing those kinds of things now. But it’s fine by me, I really like strong female characters.

ALEXANDER: How do you view the state of British horror at the moment?

NEIL: I think British horror needs to do a little bit of catching up right now. Horror goes in cycles. There was a big resurgence of horror in the early-2000s, and of course we had the advantage of certain companies like Lionsgate, who were putting horror movies into the cinemas. In the UK, we had a lot of filmmakers doing horror movies, and people were getting their films seen. And it seems to have gone back underground a little bit, especially in the UK now. There is an inherent attitude in the UK film industry that frowns upon horror. I think maybe the only reason that things in the UK picked up was because the likes of Danny Boyle were doing 28 Days Later, and suddenly it became respectable. It’s like ‘Oh, a respectable director’s doing horror, so we’ll accept horror for a few years’. And now it’s gone back underground again.

I remember how difficult it was to get Dog Soldiers made back in the day, the attitude from the British film industry was so snobby. ‘We don’t do that kind of thing’. Well, we do! We have a history of it with Hammer, an incredible history, fucking Mary Shelley for God’s sake! Read your history books and know your subject! Horror is intrinsic to the UK. So for the film industry to turn their noses up at it, because it’s the distant cousin in the movie world, it’s just stupid.

As proved again and again, every once in a while, a horror film comes along that just hits home, like Longlegs has in the States, or Smile did, or Don’t Breathe did. Some great horror films that get a look in and find an audience, and it doesn’t seem like there’s a huge amount coming out of the UK that’s getting that chance now. Be it the kind of films that are allowed to be made, or distribution, or whatever it is, it shouldn’t just be down to Frightfest to be the champion of all things horror. Thank god they do, and they’re brilliant at it, but it shouldn’t just be left to them and a handful of other passionate festivals throughout the UK. The industry itself needs to get behind it as well.

ALEXANDER: I think horror in general deserves respect—so how do you see this whole ‘elevated horror’ thing?

NEIL: I don’t think it means anything. It’s just a buzzword. Because A24’s releasing it, ‘Oh now it’s worthy’. It’s just good horror films at the end of the day. There’s good horror films, there’s bad horror films. There shouldn’t be any snobbery about it, because it’s all just movies that are hard to make, and people go out and graft hard and get them made. So ‘elevated horror’— I don’t know. It’s like ‘high concept’, I don’t know what that means. Horror in itself is elevated, the whole thing is elevated, that’s the whole point of it. So elevating something that’s already elevated? I don’t know.

ALEXANDER: Duchess is going to be in cinemas… when you were making it, did you have the cinematic experience, on a big screen, with a good sound system, in mind?

NEIL: I can’t help it! I think from my inspiration onwards, I inherently make anything I do as cinematic as I possibly can. When I’m imagining this thing, whatever it may be, I always see it on a big screen. I don’t imagine something to be seen in the living room, or on somebody’s iPhone. That would just depress the hell out of me.

ALEXANDER: You’re anti watching things on a small screen, then?

NEIL: Some things are well suited to watch at home. Some things are fine for that. Certain kinds of films are shot in such a way that it doesn’t really matter what screen they’re put on. I’m always amazed to watch films that I think ‘there’s no cinematic eye that’s gone into this at all’, but it works fine in the context. I don’t think any movie deserves to be watched on an iPhone. I think that’s a crime. But they do, and you can’t really stop that. I shoot things widescreen, I design whole films around the idea of watching it with an audience, on a big screen. That’s the key for me. It’s always been that love of cinema, being there with a crowd, experiencing something amazing—it’s unique and should be treasured, and it will carry on.

ALEXANDER: Duchess seems like the kind of film that would benefit from a shared audience

NEIL: I’m really looking forward to seeing it at some point in the cinema with a full audience. And seeing it with a bunch of regular punters, you get a much more honest appraisal of what the film is than you do if you’re watching it with jaded critics, or fellow filmmakers, or whoever it is that’s a slightly loaded audience. One thing I have found about it is the female audience has responded really strongly to it. So I’m really keen to let people know that women will really enjoy this film, so they should drag along their boyfriends—who will also enjoy it!

ALEXANDER: How do you know when violence is too much? Is there a limit?

NEIL: One thing I’d say is I don’t think it’s ever too much. In a weird way, the more over the top you go, it becomes hilarious. I think that’s what Tarantino does so well—it goes so far over the top, it’s really funny. But, anything that’s sexual violence—then yes, there are definite limits. I’ve always avoided that kind of thing in my films, because I think that is serious business and not to be joked about, and not to be over the top about. That’s a totally different thing. But kind of daft, over the top violence against criminals within the context of this film, is like ‘Yeah! Go for it!’. I can’t help brining my horror sensibilities to that kind of stuff. I struggle to make films that hold back on these things because it’s fun!

ALEXANDER: It is fun! I noticed a lot of practical effects in Duchess…

NEIL: I still try and do as much practically as I can. It’s not always easy. It usually comes down to budget and schedule. I still try and use squibs for bullet hits when I can. I’ll always give the special effects guys one go at doing it, and if it doesn’t work, then we’ll have to use CG—but you’ll always get a shot. The ball’s in your court. But I want to use those if I can, it’s just sometimes the reset times on those is prohibitive. Okay, you get one shot, but if resetting is going to take 20 minutes then we don’t have time. So, I try and be fair about that.

ALEXANDER: Lastly, desert island discs: horror film edition. If you could only choose five horror films, what would pick?

NEIL: I do tend to go for the same old ones because they’re the ones that helped define and shape me. So, I’d say American Werewolf in London, Alien, The Omen… I’ve always loved The Omen.

ALEXANDER: I love The Omen! It was formative for me—I watched it way too young.

NEIL: I saw it when I was eight or nine or something, and I’ll never forget David Warner’s head spinning across the glass. I think there’s something really beautiful about it. The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, and… The Shining. I saw them all when I was in my early-teens, and that’s what shapes your love of movies for the rest of time.

ALEXANDER: Absolutely. That shows in all of your films, up to Duchess, even though it’s not a horror film. There’s a genre enthusiasm that really comes through.

NEIL: Cool, I love that!

Duchess will be in select UK cinemas from 9 August 2024 and available on Digital Download from 12 August 2024.

You can read Alexander Boucher’s review of the film here.